Set Up Live Tools Properly on Your Haas Lathe – Haas Automation Tip of the Day


– Hello, and welcome to
another Haas Tip of the Day. Today we’re going to take the guesswork out of setting up live tools
on your Haas turning center. I’m excited about doing some
tips on our live tool lathes. But before we can make those videos, we have to show you how to
set up these live tools. If these things aren’t set up properly, we’re going to struggle with
everything else that we do. Let’s head over to the assembly area where we’ve got a naked lathe. We’ve pulled off the
sheet metal so you can get a better view of that live tooling. Well, we’ve made it back here
to our lathe assembly area. We’ve got a lathe here with
the sheet metal removed so we can see our turret better. This is a 12 station hybrid turret. That means that it has
room for six BBI40 holders along with six BOT tool holders. Now over here we’ve got
set up a VB24 turret. This is the kind of turret that you’d find on an SS machine. This one has 12 VBI40 holders along with 12 BOT holders. Now BOT stands for Bolt On Tooling because they bolt along
the outside of our turret. What does VDI stand for? Well it’s German, and I’m not going to try and pronounce it for you. Essentially it stands for
Society of German Engineers. Now the 40 in VDI40
stands for 40 millimeters. That just means that the
shank on our VDI tooling is 40 millimeters diameter. Now these tools come in two basic flavors, axial, and radial. Now our axial tools are
going to drill or tap along the z-axis of our lathes along with the spindle axis. Our radial tools will drill, tap, mill, along the x-axis of our lathe. We’re going to start off by
showing you how to set up our axial tools. Our axial tool holders
are really easy to set up. In fact, from the factory, all we should have to do
is go to our offset page, highlight the tool that
we’re trying to line up, and press the F2 key. That’s going to write the
x-axis spindle center line to our offset page for that tool. Now, trust, but verify. I want to make sure that value is correct, so what I’m going to do is I’m going to grab a coaxial indicator and I’m going to mount it in my spindle. We’ve got an adapter here
that makes this really easy. You can make one for yourself. With this adapter, we can hold our coaxial indicator in almost any size collet, or even with a 3-jaw chuck. Once we’ve mounted our indicator, we can come in and indicate off the ID of one of our VDI tooling holders. I like to use a boring bar holder because of its nice, ground ID surface. You can also indicate
off the outside of a pin mounted into a VDI holder, or even off of a tool itself. When this indicator is in the holder, you can adjust it up and down until you find the x-axis center line. If you happen to have a y-axis laid, you can also make small
adjustments to the y-axis to get your tools just perfect. So, what if you find out that your F2 x-axis center line
value is not correct? Well, if that’s off for any reason, you can call your local HFO, they can come out and change
the parameters necessary to put that value back in line. Okay, so we indicated off
the ID of our tool holder. Why didn’t I just indicate off the hole in our turret? There’s a reason for this. The hole in our turret is not round. It’s not a circle, it’s actually an oval. What we’ve got here is a
perfect 40-millimeter hole and about a millimeter below that we’ve got a second, larger hole that was put in for clearance. If we try and indicate off that hole, we’re going to have a really hard time, and whatever value we get is not going to be
useful for a tool offset. We must put a VDI holder into the turret and indicate off of that. When we put that VDI tool into our turret, we’re going to be tightening an M10 socket head cap screw, driving a wedge up against the side of our VDI tool holder. This is going to force our tool holder up against that perfect
40-millimeter surface, as well as drive that VDI tool tighter up against the face of our turret. Giving us a nice, solid hold. Okay, so our axial tool holders are pretty straightforward. Setting up a radial tool holder can be a bit more complicated, but it’s really important
that we get this right. If our radial holders are off at all, our tool is not going to
align with our x-axis. This means our tools
could wear our prematurely or even break. This is why, on the back of all of
our radial tool holders, they’ve given us some set screws. We’re going to press a 10-millimeter pin into our turret. Then, when we put our radial tools in we’re going to have that pin sticking out that we can drive our
set screws up against to adjust the angle on
our radial tool holders. I’m going to grab my pin
and some tools, here, and we’re going to go ahead and drive a pin into
the turret on our lathe. These dowel pins actually
come with your live tooling. They’re typically about
28-30 millimeters long. If you just grabbed a hammer and pounded them into the 10-millimeter hole on your turret, you might sink them in so far that there’s not enough exposed pin for the set screws in your live tooling to grab ahold of. We need 12 millimeters of exposed pin for those set screws to grab ahold of. So, what I’ve done here
is grab some round stock and I’m going to hit
the machine in a pocket, a slip-fit for this 10-millimeter pin, and I made that pocket
12 millimeters deep. We’re going to use this as an insert tool to drive this pin into the turret. When we put these pins
in we need to be careful. There’s an M6x1 threaded hole on one end. This hole is so we can yank the pin out later if we have to, so when you’re putting your pin in, make sure the threaded hole is facing you, not facing toward the turret. Got it? Okay, great. I’m going to mount this in my adapter, and drive in my pin. (hammer knocking) Perfect, we now have 12
millimeters of exposed pin. Just what we wanted. This was a pretty typical pin install. Let me show you our VB24 turret. If you have a super speed lathe, then there’s a 6-millimeter step on the surface where we press our pins in. We’re going to want to press our pins in leaving 18 millimeters exposed. That’s the 12 millimeters we need from this mounting surface, plus another 6 millimeters
to account for this step. I’ve gone ahead and milled another pocket into my stock here, 18 millimeters deep. With this, we’re going to end up with 18 millimeters of exposed pin above this surface. And we’re looking for that ideal 12 millimeters of exposed pin above our mating surface. If you’re tapping in these pins manually, you’re going to want to go slowly. If you go too deep, there won’t be enough pin exposed for our set screws to grab ahold of. And if you don’t go in far enough, your pin won’t be grabbing
the turret at all, and when you tighten those set screws, it’s just going to wobble its way out. So with our pin properly installed, we can mount our radial tool holding and align it. After it’s mounted we’re going to snug, just
lightly, that M10 bolt. We’ll then mount a ground shaft into our collet. I’m using an extension, you can use an dowel pin or even a tool. From here, I’m going to take an
indicator on a mag base and indicate along the
side of that ground shaft seeing how straight this holder is. If it’s not already straight, we can loosen and tighten these set screws against that 10-millimeter pin. Once you’ve gotten this straight, you’ll want to lightly tighten both set screws against the pin. When done, you’re going to go ahead and finish tightening
that M10 bolt on the side. So that’s it. That’s how we align our
radial tool holders. One last thing before we show you how to touch off your tools. What if you need to get these pins out? There’s some easy methods. The easiest way is just
to grab an M6x1 bolt and thread it into that
threaded end of your pin. Once that’s done, we’re going to use an actual pin puller. You can find these on the
internet for about $65. All we have to do is lock
it over the head of the bolt and slide. If you don’t have an actual pin puller, you can just grab a socket, an M6 bolt and some washers. Place that over the dowel pin, tighten the bolt, and it’ll draw the pin
right out of the turret. Well, that’s it. Let’s go back to our machine and start setting some offsets. We’ve made our tool straight, so now all we have to
do is touch them off. Typically for end mills
used in live tool holders, we’re going to touch them
off along their center lines. Now for an axial tool holder, this is pretty simple. All we have to do is
sweep in the tool holder with an indicator dialed in on the tool. We’ve got our x and maybe our xy values. For the tip of the tool, we’re going to touch that
off along the z-axis, just like you would any other drill. Radial tools can be a
little more complicated. We can’t reach the center
line of that end mill, so what we’re going to do is touch off on the tip of the end mill along the x-axis, kind of like a normal turning tool, and for the z-axis we’re going to touch off along the outer diameter of that end mill. Then we’re going to shift our tool offset by the radius. Now, if we’ve done everything right, I should be able to
command my tool to z-0, and have the center line of that end mill line up perfectly with
the z-0 face of my part. This final tip is for those of you that would like to touch
off your radial live tooling using your ATP arm, your
Automatic Tool Preset. We can do this. I’ve already brought my arm down, and I’ve jogged my end mill just above and to the
right of my probe tip. I’ve created a program in memory, and it’s really got just
one real line of code: M-134 P-800. This is going to start my live tooling with an M-134 at 800RPMs, P-800. I’m using an M134, not an M133, because I want my live tooling to spin backwards, not forwards. So with this program active in memory, I’m going to go to the IPS probing page. I’m going to select “manual cycle” because I’ve already jogged
my tool above my probe, I’m going to use tool offset 9 because I’m probing tool 9, and here’s the important part, I’m going to use tool tip direction 3. This is the same cycle we would use for an OD turning tool. It’s going to come in from the right and come down in the x, which is going to work just
great for our end mill. So I follow the directions on-screen, press F4 to record output to a program. Now I just insert this code into my program right after my M134 and we’re ready to run. Let me press “cycle start”
and we’ll see what it does. (beeping) That looked perfect. It touched off on the side of the tool and the tip of the tool on the x. But remember, we touched off on the OD, the side of the tool. We really wanted to
touch off on the center, but that wasn’t possible. So now we need to make an adjustment. We have to subtract the tool radius from our z tool offset. I’m going to go to my offset page, highlight tool 9, because
that’s the tool I used, and because I’m using a 1/2-inch end mill, I’m going to subtract .25
from my z tool offset. This is going to put that radial live tool back on center instead of the left edge. You should now be able to set up your live tooling with confidence. For more information on live tooling, be sure to download the
latest Haas lathe manual from the Haas DIY site. Now we mentioned earlier
that we are planning on making a bunch of Tip of the Day videos on live tooling topics. If you don’t want to miss any of those, and you don’t, be sure to click on the subscribe button at the end of this video. That’s it, and thanks for watching this Haas Tip of the Day.

36 thoughts on “Set Up Live Tools Properly on Your Haas Lathe – Haas Automation Tip of the Day

  1. Thank you for producing this tutorial, its fantastic. These videos are great teaching material for my programming classes at the HFO. #NailedIt

  2. Why not make a probing cycle for radial live tooling that probes on both sides of the tool probe to calculate center line and DIA of the tool? Like the renishaw tool probes for mills.

  3. Isn´t it necessary, to change the tip direction number from 3 to 8 after measuring the tool? The tool´s measured in his center, so it has to be tip 8 and not tip 3. And what about entering a radius? These things are important, if you want to work with G41/G42.

  4. i'm the salty guy type who's never satisfied with any thing but really these videos are keeping my mouth shut 😀 so really good job haas

  5. How do you setup offsets for a straight on tool such as a V series with neutral offset? How to set the centerline of the insert?

  6. Hi there, from Mark! I've had a few people ask me how tight they should tighten those M10 bolts on their VDI holders. Here are the numbers that I go with:
    Axial VDI 40 Holders: 30 ft-lb (41 Nm)
    Radial VDI 40 Holders: 37 ft-lb (50 Nm)
    Over-tightening these bolts can throw your tool angles off by a small amount.
    -Mark, Haas Tips of the Day

  7. The nice video, but availability of hand-written subtitles would be great. It's slightly difficult to understand his speech and a lot of professional terms for foreigners. In any case thanks a lot!

  8. Question, since you can make the tool attachment's, Why are they so expensive, 4K for 1 tool attachment, i could buy a whole 2nd hand Haas machine for that.

  9. While using mdi, how do I get the absolute coordinate to read on control screen as opposed to what it does now (reads from machine zero)?

  10. I know the video is a couple of months old, but I was wondering why the endmill is rotating when being indicated?

    I can see the pro's of this, as getting the outer diameter right on the endmill by rotating it by hand would be quite difficult, and I don't know if there is any standard as to the placement of the shank-groove (of that is the right word – hope you get what I'm trying ti say) for the set-screw in accordance to the tips of one of the teeth.

    If the latter is actually something that is taken into consideration from the manufacturer's perspective, then wouldn't it be easier to design a radial tool-holder with the function of an M29 code (spindle sync for tapping cycles if I remember correctly) each time it stops spinning? 🙂

    Anyways, thanks for all the expertly explained videos – they give me a good understanding of many things I haven't had the chance to work with over the last 3 years of my apprenticeship ^^,

    Cheers from a Danish fan :b

  11. So why do cnc lathes cut on the back side of the part? Seems like that would apply the force away from the bed (lifting the tooling away from the foundation of the machine).

  12. Thanks mark for all this information , I want to ask about the torque in VDI holders is it the same on all that 40mm holes in the turret . and how the mechanism of movement is working .

  13. Great video but those VDI live holders are a pain. Why not just put the dowels on the face of the turret where the tool body sits like all of the Swiss machines do? Then there is zero indicating necessary unless you're doing a grid shift. This seems inefficient at best and poorly engineered at worst.

  14. Too lazy to scroll through comments… just got new Haas lathe in today and I'm told there is no -soft limit/chuck barrier…. is this true? If so, WHY?!

  15. Love the vids. Love Mark, like the way he comes across. I'd like to see more lathe TOD' s. I'm a lathe guy and can use all the help I can.

  16. Very good. I have just used the cnc machine lather so there is a question of setting the offset for the grooving tool when cutting the groove. Is it necessary to compensate for the width of the knife?

  17. i use a carbide blank. touch on x and move diameter of the blank plus/minus your nominal wear value at finish pass and on z half the amount of your blank

  18. It amazes how shockinly shite the design is on these turrets, why would you ever want operators/setters banging dowel pins into a turret with the possibility of them not only bashing the crap out of the turret but also putting it in the wrong way. Also why would you ever want to tie yourself down to only being able to put 6 vdi tools on the turret and why do they have to stick out so far? If you mounted the radial tools to the under side of the turret instead of the face you wouldn't need to worry about using a pin to indicate it straight. Don't even get me started on spinning an end mill and winding it against your tool eye. No wonder hass have a bad reputation.

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